Original intro/outro music:
"'Till I See Stars" by The Parachute Brigade
The sun does not always shine in West Virginia but the people always do. And I'm delighted to be here.
Brandon Dennison:These are historic times in Appalachia. A lot has changed. A lot is changing now and a lot still needs to change. In our podcasts we talked with change makers right square in the middle of all this working to ensure the change is for the good. You're listening to Change in the Coalfields podcast by Coalfield Development. I'm your host Brandon Dennison. Okay, this is Change in the Coalfields. I'm your host, Coalfield Development CEO Brandon Dennison. This week we have Adam Hudson, Adam Hudson just got promoted as the Senior Director of Agriculture at Coalfield Development. Adam has been over a program of ours called Refresh Appalachia, popular program in sustainable agriculture for many years now. So Adam, welcome to the podcast.
adam hudson:Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Brandon Dennison:So one of the things I love about the podcast is we get to hear the long version of the story. A lot of times we were in meetings together quite regularly, you know, as members of the Coalfield team, but a lot of times, that's all business so we can slow down and just learn a little bit more about who you are and what makes you tick and what you care about, and your vision for sustainable agriculture, here in central Appalachia. So what got you interested in agriculture in the first place?
adam hudson:I mean, that goes back to I don't remember not being outside. My grandfather, and a small farm in Lavalette, West Virginia, about eight acres, he got that in 1965. And he threw everything on it, you can possibly think of - had every living thing on it you could possibly think of all those years. And then in the 90s, before I was born, he just started a greenhouse. So I grew up in that environment with and have on a small greenhouse business. And then I don't remember having the option to not be in the garden, but also don't remember not wanting to be in the garden.
Brandon Dennison:You just felt comfortable in that.
adam hudson:Yeah. We started raising the garden together. I mean, I can remember being as young as six or seven years old and probably learn how to drive a tractor at ten. It was just all pretty organic for me.
Brandon Dennison:Have you ever crashed a tractor?
adam hudson:Have I ever...I think it depends on how you define crash a tractor? I have nicked a post here and there. I bumped the barn. The one place on the barn that I can I'll lay claim to that is from where I ran the bucket into the end of it but the building is still standing so it wasn't that big of a deal.
Brandon Dennison:Have you ever gotten stuck in a creek bed with the tractor?
adam hudson:I've never had to go through a creek bed. Okay, so I don't think I've ever gotten I've gotten stuck in - no, I don't think I've ever gotten it actually stuck up. Now a lawnmower, yes. But an actual 4-wheel drive tractor. I've done pretty good about keeping it out of the mud and not getting stuck in the field anywhere.
Brandon Dennison:Describe just in case of listeners never been in a greenhouse and Lavalette...humid...West Virginia Julys what, what describe, describe that.
adam hudson:So I mean, greenhouses come in all shapes and sizes. And the greenhouses we had were just pretty much like a basic shell of a hoop structure with plastic on top two layers of plastic with air forced between the two layers of plastic to provide a little bit of a buffer. And then you've got fans on one end with vents on the other air through or pull it down in the summertime. Still, in the summertime without one that's got proper ventilation, or even minimal ventilation. They get pretty, pretty hot and humid. And in the wintertime, you usually got a couple of furnaces and you got fans going usually in the reverse direction. They help us through the warm air circulation for warm air to maintain your temperature for your crops. And whenever you've got growing in there in the wintertime.
Brandon Dennison:What would you guys grow in there?
adam hudson:He mostly did. I mean, he had three greenhouses. And all three of them were over 100 foot long. And he would raise mostly annuals. This time of year, late December, he would start getting in the seed and lugs. So you get 100 lugs in a tray of say like your vinca or marigolds or something like that. And usually come a little bit later. Like petunias will come in about this time your geraniums just take a lot longer so and I can remember pulling out trays of dirt and you would just lug away. I mean, I got pretty pretty quick at it after doing it for many many years. And he would buy and sell and trade what he didn't grow well there with other businesses around. So say another greenhouse in the area grew red geraniums really well, but he didn't even grow with the white ones. And then they would swap out to get the balance that they needed to meet their demands for what the local market wanted.
Brandon Dennison:And was was that his primary business? Or did he have a whole career before agriculture?
adam hudson:He was a local asbestos pipe fitter. Union pipe fitter. Union for all those years and retired from that. And he started doing that. Right. Not long after high school. He actually worked on the Greenbrier bunker. Again, yeah, they were told, you know, can't talk about this didn't have to sign anything when he worked on the bunker. You knew what they were doing. But it was one of his first, I think he was maybe a supervisor at the time when they did part of that still, we're just new kind of a team lead or something like that.
Brandon Dennison:So he was doing as best as like installing it before they knew how bad it was?
adam hudson:Right? Oh, yeah. He thankfully, didn't have any of the negative effects of it afterwards, because he, he worked his way up pretty quick to be a foreman on most jobs in the late 80s, late 80s and 90s. He was a foreman. One of the last jobs he got offered was the big new plant down in Tennessee, I can't remember where that's at. But he always talked about he was offered to go lead that project, turned it down, because he was about a year away from retirement. In the sight of it, he wouldn't do that he'd ride out where he was working at, which was at a plant down on the Ohio River near Portsmouth where he was at at the time, And then he opened up the greenhouse and he never stopped working. All through the years he was working with the other job he owned a hardware store too, at the same time in Lavalette. So in the hardware store, he was operating and he was working as a local ad. He was just didn't know how not to work. And I think that's where a lot of my work ethic I know that comes from is that drive and influence there.
Brandon Dennison:It makes sense. Are there some key pieces of wisdom that he passed on to you that stay with you today?
adam hudson:I think making sure you plan out the job ahead of time. That's a big one. And then don't skimp on your supplies when you're building something you want the last. If you look at any of the buildings around our property that he and I, a lot of my built with him. They're built to last. He was wondering if it could need if it can be done with a two by four, he probably put a two by six on it. Just to make sure it had the integrity and structural to last.
Brandon Dennison:You used to live on the farm - you have those memories?
adam hudson:And they have been doing all that cleanup actually here the past couple of months just cleaning up our old nursery pots and cleaning up some sheds and buildings where he left. He accumulated a lot of things over the years as a farmer and entrepreneur, you know, he did not want to get rid of things. He always thought he had reason to keep some things. So there was just a lot of left there. When he cut back on the greenhouse is all that plastic it's hard to get rid of, you can't recycle most of those parts and things. So it's like we've been trying to sort through what's still good, and then I've had to got a dumpster and really just cleaned up a lot of the property just to try and get to a more manageable state.
Brandon Dennison:Can you describe that that property? And maybe do you have a favorite spot on the farm that gives you nourishment and peace?
adam hudson:Yeah, so it's kind of a weird spot. Really, when you think of a farm. It's it's on your way up towards the lake in the county, and it's um, there's like a little it's feels more like a suburb to some extent when you're driving up through there, because you've got all these houses. All of them were built in the 60s and early 70s. And then there's a little offshoot for a little road called Beech Fork Circle. And he has a house at the top and then you go behind that house and go down a little hill. And you've got the creek that borders the property there. And there's this flat spot where here's about about six and a half to seven acres down there flat. And fenced in. You still got these neighbors up on the other end. So in the fall, winter, you can see most of the neighbors that are around summertime you're kind of hidden away. But it's it's creek borders have the property on there. So that's been when I was younger, I probably would have said there but there's a place where a red button tree that I liked to go in the spring. You can peer right through the red bud and see the blooms and you can see most of the property in the hills behind it. And that's probably one of my favorite spots.
Brandon Dennison:I love that - by the red bud tree. So your your parents stayed nearby and you have a sister?
adam hudson:She just actually just earned her occupational therapy certificate. So she's gonna start working with kids to do some occupational therapy with them. She got her degree in that so...
Brandon Dennison:Good for her. And you say did you go to public school?
adam hudson:I did. Wayne County Public School. Went to Lavalette elementary then went to Wayne Middle, Wayne High School. Yep - all the way.
Brandon Dennison:Were you in 4H?
adam hudson:I think it was about 12 when I started 4H. I was in 4H until you age out at 21.
Brandon Dennison:What did that mean to you?
adam hudson:That was where I think developed another side of the agriculture, love for me too not just doing the stuff, but actually the kind of the leadership side of it. For a lot of that was developed from doing that. And then pairing that with my experience in high school in ROTC in high school. So those two there kind of, I fell in love with the leadership side of that type of work to not just farming and growing things, but actually moving people towards a common goal, I think, to accomplish something that's bigger than oneself. To me, that was kind of a driving factor that kind of was resonating with me since that, since that point.
Brandon Dennison:Is that how you define leadership? That's a great definition, honestly.
adam hudson:Thanks. So that's that's how I usually would, that's my kind of go to definition for a lot stems to some influence from Carl Markham, the extension agent that really influenced me a lot to do what I do, too.
Brandon Dennison:I'm so glad you brought up Carl, that's an influence we share. Yeah, you know, right. So I was working on Coalfield, initially in the summer of 2010. So where would you have been in 2010?
adam hudson:I would have been probably summer of 2010. Yeah, I guess I would have been a sophomore at Wayne High School.
Brandon Dennison:Yeah. Because because then that makes sense. Because the first time I ever heard about Adam Hudson was from Carl Markham. And he knew that part of the vision of Coalfield was to have an agriculture program. At the time it was more construction. And he said how you really got to keep your eye on Adam Hudson. That'll be that'll be a good one for us. And he was right. And Carl, you know, a lot of folks, if you follow the Act Now Coalition we've built on this metaphor of a flock of geese, trying to be a flock of geese rather than a barrel full of crabs. And that came from Carl, I heard I first heard that metaphor, Carl, just a wise man, old country boy grew up on a farm himself, an extension agent and he just like you, he made the same point that, you know, we need to do ag but we also need to look at our whole community and get people engaged again.
adam hudson:Right. I think I mean, I did the Brushy Fork Leadership Institute and he was co-lead that with, I guess it was Peter, Peter Hilly at the time. And that's because my first interaction with Peter, back then. And I think I was one of the younger people to have done that Leadership Institute. And so I got out of school to go do that. And we talked a lot about the different community projects and ran across some of that work not too long ago, when I was cleaning out some files and looking through some documents.
Brandon Dennison:So you dropped that off to me.
adam hudson:Yeah, I dropped one of them off to eat or look to look over the Carl are all kind of put together. I think he I think I might have been when he was finishing up some master's work he had he was required to do maintain his position and stuff with extension. And he put together this document and just wisdom. I don't know a better way to say it. And just some wisdom, kind of thoughts on leadership and community. And how to develop that kind of where we maybe where we should be going.
Brandon Dennison:Good a good guy. He was part of something called the Wayne County Hubcap Team. Right. And that was connect with the West Virginia Community Development Hub. And I also was a part of that and that summer 2010. And the idea was you come together as a team, you have a project you work on for your community. Ours was getting the Beech Fork Lodge. Right bill, which is this sort of lifelong. What's the word? It's like - carrot dangled in front of us that is never actually given to us. Maybe one day, it'll happen. But you also work on developing as leaders. And so even though we didn't get the lodge done, and we actually did get it done, the governor came in. So it's a sore point. Yeah, betrayal. Try not to go down. But the leadership development still worth it. You still carry that forward? Charity Dameron was another person..Yeah. Tell it tell us about Charity.
adam hudson:Charity was she was over the FRN Family Resource Network and suddenly passed away. I mean, just a great person. She was a foster parent, too. And she was engaged. You went to a community meeting in Wayne County. Back then she was there, she was there to make sure that stuff was happening. And she was a voice for people who maybe were voices were quiet. She was the loud one that making sure everybody had their voice heard.
Brandon Dennison:Because she'd experienced firsthand a lot of the challenges we talked about, we say, you know, socio economic disadvantage. She'd been through that. But she did. She didn't let that define her right. Just a fighter. So honestly gave me a hard time. A lot of time. I mean, she would hold you accountable. And tell you what she thought, but you'd be better off for it. By the end of it, it was always for the best. She always had the best of Wayne County, at her core. So you have a lot of good influences.
adam hudson:There's a lot of good people from Wayne County.
Brandon Dennison:What other stuff did you do for fun growing up? Wayne County? Music?
adam hudson:Yeah, music come from some musical family, singing quartet type music and churches and playing instruments. And that was something that we did a lot of. I mean, for a long time, especially growing up. We were in a church every other weekend, sometimes singing in a revival or something. That was fun. Yeah, it was fun to do that.
Brandon Dennison:And do you have a favorite hymn?
adam hudson:For me? It's a hard question to ask. Amazing. Grace is a typical one. Right? But when you really look at the what was written, I mean, in a pentatonic scale, which is typical of like, African American inspired music, that makes me look at it from a different lens instead of just saying, Oh, they love Amazing Grace. When I look at it from that, and the fact that it's not the maybe the melody even come from John Newton was on slave ships or something like that is more powerful to me than just, oh, my favorite song is Amazing Grace.
Brandon Dennison:So you finished at Wayne, you're in the 4H and in the ROTC. And then you went to Berea?
adam hudson:Yeah, I applied to Berea. Carl Markham was the one who really mentioned Berea, as well as a guidance counselor at Wayne. And they said you should check out Berea. So I did. And actually I got turned down the first - they do a couple of different cycles. And I've gotten, I've gotten a letter they said, I think it was still under question. So they want me to answer a few more questions. First, I think I don't think it was actually being declined the first time because they do a couple of different enrollment periods, \how they do it. But then I believe it was around Christmas of my senior year, I got the official notification to go to Berea had no clue what I was really getting into going to this small hippie college in Kentucky. And I feel like that's the place that I really grew into myself was at Berea.
Brandon Dennison:Some folks might not know, can you tell us a little bit of a history of Berea and what makes it unique?
adam hudson:Yeah, so Berea was founded in 1885. As they were one of the, they were integrated then before they were told they couldn't be integrated. And they were the first college in the south technically to be integrated wherever they were allowed to integrate. And then so a history of just abolitionism and just inclusion. I mean, their motto was "God has made of one people. God had made from one blood all people to the earth." So just that alone, being the motto, not necessarily a Christian school, but founded on some Christian principles of all people need to be loved and included basically. And now it's a small school only about 1500 students. But um, they've got a variety of degrees. And they've got a Bachelors of Science in agriculture and natural resources, which I'm proud to say that that's what I graduated there with and work on the college farm with one of the oldest work study colleges in the country too so you're able to work there and pay off your tuition. I graduated with no debt because of the work study program. I wasn't able to save much but I didn't have any debt. So not having debt is a big deal. And that's, that's their mission is to serve primarily Appalachia, but they've got over 50 countries usually represented as well. And it's geared towards those who don't have usually financial means as a big, that's just, there's just students they try to cater towards, so, higher poverty, higher. Whatever your risk might be similar to the Coalfield's model, kind of demographic and people we work with here. It's really similar and same thing all and then include environmental lens and the site of work. They try to just promote community work too. So they hit up their hand on a lot of different things.
Brandon Dennison:Were you were any of your assumptions challenged while you're at Berea? When you say you grew a lot? Did you change too or did was it more just discovering yourself?
adam hudson:I think my ideas on faith grew to be more broader, more ability to step back and listen better. I think for me, that was a big takeaway from Berea was that and because, and that's one thing with Berea too, usually in another college, you're gonna take all classes that are kind of within your degree. I took dance classes, I had to take religion classes, music classes, ag classes, chemistry, I mean, because you're required to take some of these different things as a liberal arts school too and the way they have. They want you to be well rounded and have an idea of how to do all this critical thinking. And I think to me, that was there, they were always challenging your way of thinking. And you might think you know how to do something or might think that's one thing, then the next thing, you know, are challenging the way they taught you how to think previously, again. So you're always evolving that thought process. And I think this is where real is really where I discovered myself. And I've been able to identify as gay, coming out of Berea, too, which is not something that I'm necessarily comfortable doing as a young male high schooler in rural West Virginia growing up.
Brandon Dennison:Sure, sure. That courage and comfort, right. That's, that's fantastic. And inclusion. Have you carried forward, I mean you mentor a lot of people now and you have over the years. And you do now, in your role? Have you carried forward some of the lessons from Berea into how you mentor others?
adam hudson:Definitely. Because at Berea, I think one thing that really helped with that, too, is working in the work study program, I was a supervisor by my junior and senior year, I was more of a supervisor. So like all the freshmen that went through that year, remember, the farm manager didn't teach them how to drive the tracker that year. They have enough competence in me to do that. And I think I always consider myself not to be a patient person. But I get told all the time that I am pretty patient. I don't think of myself as patient. I think of myself as a very, I want to get it done. I want this to happen. Now. Let's do it. But I get told a lot of times, I guess, especially when I'm teaching or instructing somebody that I'm pretty patient. Yeah, I guess I mean, I can step back and admit, yeah, I mean, because I don't want them there's no point to freak out and make them panic, because I want to get it done. Right. They're not gonna learn anything. I think for me, that's one of them. The mentorship that I take with the most is, alright, we're working on the fence here or you don't know how to do it. I'm gonna, I'm not gonna do it for you. I'm gonna show you how to take the time to show you how to do it.
Brandon Dennison:What a great lesson - pushing and being accountable for getting work done, but not in such a frantic way that learning can't happen, right? What a great mentorship lesson. Well, how did you go from Berea College student to Refresh Appalachia.
adam hudson:It's an interesting story and kind of they say things come back around, I guess. I remember I guess it was 2015 or 2016. I think me and you met briefly then. And you had sent me what was called the refreshed business plan. And I didn't even remember it until after I got hired.
Brandon Dennison:Because you were an intern with the state...
adam hudson:An intern for our summer with Department of Agriculture.
Brandon Dennison:And ironically, I met you in Mason County. And you were in a high tunnel.
adam hudson:Maybe I met we even met there or we met when we were visiting the fort what was going to be the Fort Gay hub that they were working on. But um, I had applied for extension positions all over Kentucky and even Tennessee. And when I was graduating Berea, I honestly didn't know where I was going to go. And I came back here without much of a plan. And then I was told a good friend of my grandfather's Don Purdue, who was a delegate and an EDA director for a while said come on up to the EDA office, I've got someone I want you to meet. Introduced me to Park Ferguson who was out there doing a lot of agriculture in the schools - Wayne County farmer, he was a Wayne High School Graduate too. And he introduced me to Ben Gilmer, who was the president of Refresh over a quick email, I think it was like on a Friday. And then I've sent Ben my email or my resume. And he, he said let's do an interview on Monday. So we did a quick phone call interview on a Monday. He said that he'd be at West Edge on Friday. Come down and see me went down. I met him at Savannah Lyons who was working for us here at the time. And then we had a conversation in the high tunnel
Brandon Dennison:Classic interview setting.
adam hudson:Yeah, and then we you know, he called me on think about Thursday or Friday call me offered me the job. And that's that's how I got started at Refresh. I suppose as a projects coordinator.
Brandon Dennison:Which basically means a little bit everything that's needed.
adam hudson:That means I can do everything else that nobody else has the time to do. And I did that for about eight months. And I use that time wisely and I learned how to do everybody else's job very well. During that time. I wanted to be as flexible as possible, make sure I know how to do everything because I'm gonna have to step in for a crew chief.
Brandon Dennison:The first time I saw you in that role. We're processing chickens, the mobile processing unit on a former mountaintop removal site. Yep. Pretty unique job.
adam hudson:Yep. I had to pull that trailer alone. Couple different places in the state. I did not like pulling the trailer and one thing I don't like doing is pulling a trailer or driving a big truck.
Brandon Dennison:It just I'm so touched right now. I have chills just just my story Coalfield story, your story. It's also interwoven. I mean, Don Purdue was my first boss. When I was getting Coalfields started, there wasn't actually any money for payroll. So I helped Don at the Economic Development Authority. Mark and Lacey become very good friends. They're now in the earnings building, which is our first major project, charity and Carl, being an initial mentor was Ben Gilmer being a mutual friend. It's just amazing how it all just sort of a lot, weaving together. Ultimately, people who just love this place, and are just committed to seeing its full potential finally, yeah, you're right in the middle of that man.
adam hudson:Right where I think I need to be.
Brandon Dennison:Well, agriculture in Central Appalachia is a tough business. So tell the listener a little bit what makes it so tough? And what is your vision for agriculture's role in our new economy?
adam hudson:What makes agriculture tough - I mean agriculture is tough anywhere, then you layer in these mountains, and trying to transport product over these hills and through these valleys to get it from one market to the next. I think that's, that's one of the biggest challenges is just trying to weave all that together and make it financially make sense for the farmer. And then the fact that most of the farmers are not your large, large scale farmers, they are more of your medium, or smaller scale farmers not growing on hundreds of acres, they've got 10 acres here that's flat.
Brandon Dennison:They're not going to win in economies of scale, competition,
adam hudson:It's probably never going to happen in the economy of scale, with the size of some of these farmers. So we're trying to do more creative, you know, with high tunnels, and then tiered agroforestry type projects, things like that to really diversify. And I mean, those are some of the biggest challenges I think I see is just the logistics and topography we have to deal with. And then just, that kind of goes back to the economies of scale with the size of the farms. So but I think that also leads to an opportunity for us to because we can do some creative and unique things that you can't do anywhere else and put a story behind that. I think it's a story that nobody else can tell from an Appalachian farmer's perspective. Just, I mean, the fact that we're able to, we're doing some of the work to on former strip mines to figure out how do we have solar panels with maybe, you know, sheep grazing underneath? Or, you know, growing crops, eventually, once you get soil bases back, there's just a lot of work going into that too that. Maybe that helps us offset that scale a little bit too where you've got some economies of scale there. Or at least it's specific enough to where it does make sense.
Brandon Dennison:Yeah. And I believe it's worth it, even though it is really hard. And tell us some of the reasons that it's worth the fight to figure out Ag in Central Appalachia, even though it is so hard.
adam hudson:If we had not been, if we didn't have some system in place during COVID, there would have been people in this state in this region that would have gone hungry. We were able to help secure supply chains because we had local supply chains with local people, local product that was not from 1000s of miles away, but there was one and you know, a couple 100 miles away within central Appalachia, to meet schools or food banks, even some restaurants that needed that product. I think that there to me is the biggest reason why because people always got to eat and the quality of that food was so much better than had it been on truck for days.
Brandon Dennison:Strong argument. Yep. Turns out it's pretty vulnerable to depend on your food from 2000 miles away. It's also not so healthy. A lot of our health outcomes right now. We've got to find a way to to eat healthier, right. Well, tell what are some of agriculture at Coalfield? I know you just became the co-chair of the CAN working group for sustainable agriculture. Refresh continues to grow and innovate. So tell us about some of your priorities, looking ahead to 2023.
adam hudson:So we've got several priorities. One of them is just our trainings and engagement with our, with the communities we're working in, I think, for us to really expand our farmer network and kind of reestablish us as a leader within that a little bit better. With COVID, we're kind of coming out of just some up and down, and actions there, we've got a really good stable staff right now. And the people in place that can really make that happen. So doing some of these trainings to really figure out what is needed to get to that point, a more sustainable system. Yep. So helping provide those trainings. That's, that's a big priority for us. And to that, that's going to feed the aggregation distribution work we're doing. And we're partnering with Appalachian Sustainable Development out of Virginia. And then after yep, yep. And the Appalachian Center for Economic Networks out of Ohio ran a couple of regional food grants with them. And we've seen some progress moving some even just some product from Southeast Ohio to food banks, and some local markets, and Huntington has been able to distribute that product. And we've had some really good traction with. And then that kind of takes us to our next with Farmer School. And we're just having some really great progress in two counties. Right now we're piloting with have an AmeriCorps who's doing some in class activities. So teaching kids about, you know, taking, getting open a pumpkin, looking at the circumference of counting the seeds, things like that, to really, really get kids excited about the agriculture work, it's great and getting excited at local food, and then doing some tastings to get them exposed to things they normally wouldn't eat. So kale microgreens, things that. And then we're able to turn around with this network of partners and provide on an offer sheet, you know, you can purchase this too. You can purchase this local lettuce, tomatoes, kale, have it into your schools, and we're moving towards that direction and getting the orders up to where it's starting to make sense for some of the farmers we're working.
Brandon Dennison:That's so cool. Is that accurate to say? You're really trying to to develop a new agriculture system? For Central Appalachia?
adam hudson:Yeah, I think so. I think I mean, we're trying to, we're trying to build off of I mean, the system, the agriculture system within this country is not sustainable or sufficient. It's built with a lot of subsidies. And a lot of just older walls and mindsets in mind we're trying to build is how do we build this local, more local, regional food system that is viable and sustainable? For both the producer, farmer making the product and then the consumer on the other side, too, so therefore making a more secure system?
Brandon Dennison:Just keep going keep it up. The question, I like to close out with everybody, you know, what are some big changes that you've seen in Appalachia, in your lifetime that you're happy about? What are some big change? Or maybe some changes that you're not happy about to? And what are some changes that you still hope to see in the near near future?
adam hudson:Yeah, I think, for me, I mean, one significant change living near Huntington for me, when I left to go to college, back in 2013, I think it was still a pretty, it was known to be very...drugs were really bad then. And there wasn't a lot of local offerings, and then come back after that. And in the past few years, even you've got a very vibrant local food scene. And the crime rate has decreased. There's not as many abandoned buildings, just the work that the city is gonna put into. A lot of it comes from where they got the best communities grant. I think that helped a lot, because they actually put it in places that were successful to invest in. And that change to me has been, it's made me very proud to be from the area, I think. And then, I mean, there's been a lot that's happened, I think, but then there's been a lot that's, you hear talk about, I think that's still a Beech Fork Lodge, for example, laws are not built, you know, they talk about the opportunity, and then it doesn't happen. I think there's, I think there's still a lot of opportunity, with, like tourism activities like that. And agriculture. I mean, we're testing it alone on our regenerative mine site, down in Mingo County. There's, there's ways to think creatively with a lot of these problems, and not just have an I think a lot of times we think too narrow of a focus sometimes. We're able to expand our thought and think, well, it doesn't have to be just agriculture. What happens if we do put some cabins on this site? And we have some solar panels? Or we open up a racetrack? I don't know. You know, I mean, let's play with the idea of what might work yeah. And I think that excites me. And I think is gives me, I'd like to see more of that and more openness in those conversations to just let the dreams fly a little bit instead of just shooting them down as soon as they get off the ground. And I think a lot of that happens from all points too, but especially from our leadership and legislation to take interest in what's going on in the communities and being aware of how how or what can be most helpful for the communities.
Brandon Dennison:Get a little creative there. Yeah, not just cling to everything that has been right. But what might come next.
adam hudson:Or for that real change to happen. You've got to get a little uncomfortable.
Brandon Dennison:Yeah, great point. Well, Adam, the work you're doing I genuinely admire it. And Wayne County and Central Appalachia is better off for it. It's been fun to hear a little bit more in depth your descriptions of growing up here and greenhouse in the read your favorite Redbud tree and your development at Berea and how you found Refresh. It's quite a story. And hopefully it gives other young Appalachians a lot of hope and encouragement and I'm sure that it will. All right, see you next time. Thanks. Change in the Coalfields is a podcast created by Coalfield Development in the hills and hollers of West Virginia. This episode was hosted by Brandon Dennison, and produced and edited by JJ in multimedia, become a part of our mission to rebuild the Appalachian economy by going to our website Coalfield-Development.org. To make a donation, you can email us anytime at info@Coalfield-Development.org and subscribe to our newsletter for more information on the podcast. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn by searching Coalfield Development. Check back soon for more episodes.