Change in the Coalfields: A Podcast by Coalfield Development

Kaleb Hanshaw

October 27, 2022 Coalfield Development Season 2 Episode 15
Change in the Coalfields: A Podcast by Coalfield Development
Kaleb Hanshaw
Show Notes Transcript

Original intro/outro music: 
"'Till I See Stars" by The Parachute Brigade

John F. Kennedy:

The sun does not always shine in West Virginia but the people always do and I'm delighted to be here.

Brandon Dennison:

These are historic times in Appalachia. A lot has changed. A lot is changing now and a lot still needs to change. In our podcast we talk with change makers right square in the middle of all of this, working to ensure the change is for the good.

Ashley Stinnett:

We're listening to Change in the Coalfields podcast by Coalfield Development. I'm your guest host, Ashley Stinnett. So welcome to Change the Coalfields. And today, we are very fortunate to have a Coalfield employee Kaleb Hanshaw, whose official title is crew chief at the Refresh, Highwall Mingo. Did I get that right, Kaleb? I hope I did.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

I've never heard someone say it better. So I think I should just record that and play it in front of everyone. But yeah, beautiful.

Ashley Stinnett:

It can be part of your outgoing voice(mail). It can be part of your outgoing message and your voicemail.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Absolutely. Ringtone something like that.

Ashley Stinnett:

I think it should be. I feel like your ringtone would be like, Keith Whitley or something. The legend, maybe like George Strait? I don't know.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah, yeah. I think I think it's my wife right now saying "pickup, pickup, pickup". I'll stick with that one. It usually works.

Ashley Stinnett:

So Kaleb give me a little bit of backstory. Growing up, you know, life then versus life now. Kind of take us on the the quick train ride, from Kaleb's beginnings to where we are right now...your neck of the woods.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Okay. Well, I luckily grew up in Mingo County. I was born there, was raised there, and a lot like others my age, couldn't wait to get out. I was so focused on what we didn't have, that I couldn't wait to go and explore the world. And, you know, thought that I knew everything and ended up moving to Florida for school, and became a youth pastor for a church down there. Started my career in ministry, which led me to come back home in West Virginia. It's funny, you can't wait to leave but once you leave, you can't wait to get back. And I found an opportunity to come back. My wife and I married a couple of months before we moved back and she fell in love with the place. So she gave the final word, she wanted to raise a family here in Appalachia. So we left, came back. And I was in the ministry for about four more years. And then slowly started to transition out to more entrepreneurial stuff, more agricultural stuff. Which led me to Coalfield Development. Hopefully, that was quick enough.

Ashley Stinnett:

That was a that was really neat, man. I don't want to say there's a lot to unpack with that because it makes it sound weird. But I am curious. In ministry here, then Florida, the back to here, like talk a little bit about that. I mean, what were some changes, you know, along the way, and what was it like adjusting to? You know, like, was it...was there a difference in that?

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Sure. You know, I grew up in, in church, I kind of grew up in that dynamic. So I kind of always had an interest to helping people. So that became a passion just to see people get healed, mentally, physically, and become whole. And oddly enough, that that dynamic really doesn't change across state lines. It's truly the same wherever you live, and it's always based around people. You always find that community that that is your tribe that relates to you that gets you and we were lucky to find that wherever we went. So I'm super grateful for the churches that I was involved in even even though they were different denominations, which is very interesting. They still were our people, and just forever grateful for that for that time.

Ashley Stinnett:

You know, that warms my heart to hear that because you know, we live in very divisive times. I mean, I see people getting in knockdown, drag out arguments over sports, politics, religion, you name it. So, the fact that, you know, you can talk about ministering, helping to heal people with different denominational backgrounds is pretty awesome.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Listen, I didn't know that a Florida versus Florida State game was that big a deal?

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah. You don't want to be wearing Seminole stuff in Gainesville. You don't want to be wearing Gators gear in Tallahassee.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah, yeah, that's true. I found that out

Ashley Stinnett:

But did you quickly figure it out? That the the hard way. weather was a little bit better than here? Unless you like this wonky? I don't know, man. Like we either, you know, I used to believe we have all four seasons. But in October when it's like, 32 degrees in the morning, I feel like we've like frogleaped into winter. And then this weekend, it's gonna be like, 78 I can't figure it out anymore. I don't know.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

We're learning adaptability, man. I will say in Florida, I like to eat. And sometimes pounds come along with that. So when you go to the place where, like, you walk outside and you can't breathe, you feel like you're getting trained by NASA every day. I couldn't wait to come home. I wouldn't sweat so often. So I'm gonna be a huge proponent for West Virginia weather even though you can't really tell what it's doing right now.

Ashley Stinnett:

You can't really tell. But one thing that you can clearly tell is, you know, West Virginia, and most of Appalachia this time of year looks like a Bob Ross painting. Matter of fact, when I look at the hillsides, I can just hear his voice.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Oh, listen, you say, you say the things that he says - you go around or wanting reading like, oh, there's a little tree there. There's a little tree- bright orange. The spirit of Bob Ross comes over to you on an evening drive. So that's completely true.

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah, it does. It's It's amazing. I just wish I could replicate the hair in some way. That that's a bucket list item. I've got to get that hair going. At some point. I don't know if like, that's a violation, some policy, HR, I have to check on that. I don't know.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

It's just rubbing your head against the carpet. And just keep doing that. Like you should be able to get some inches that way.

Ashley Stinnett:

I feel like that would work. Yeah, that's that's really good advice. That's exactly why I had you on today to help walk me through how to achieve next level Bob Ross hair. So thank you for that.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Alright, I'll see you later...

Ashley Stinnett:

Mingo County. So you're not you come back to Mingo County. And talk a little bit about Mingo growing up versus Mingo today. And the overall, you know, what, what's it look like in the southern coalfields of West Virginia? Like then and now, from your perspective?

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Sure. There's, there's really two interesting dynamics. And I've been asked this question a lot recently. What was different between then and now just want to hit two different aspects and one was like the economy. You know, growing up in a one industry area. It was really coal. We had a lot of hard working men, a lot of hard working grandpas. Everybody's grandpa was a coal miner. So to get to grew up in that atmosphere, to see people that worked hard. You catch that in a lot of ways you can't really learn you got to catch it. You got to rub shoulders with people that work hard to instill that in you so I treasure that, I treasure and give credit to my work ethic just being in this community of hard working guys, that would you know, put 16 hours and then still make it to the ballgame with black all over their faces. There was a lot of pride that we had as a community and and then going on the other aspect of it. Now where coal is, people say you know, it's declining, it's starting to pick back up now but I think the inability to be diversive in what we do as an economy really struck home. So a lot of people that, you know, didn't want to be a coal miner, which is completely okay, couldn't find a place here to, to live or couldn't find a place here to grow up and be entrepreneurial. So that that's starting to grow now is we're starting to see people that are creative. And it goes hand in hand with the other aspect, like I was talking about earlier, when I grew up here, I couldn't wait to leave because all I could see was the lack of, all I could see was we don't have this, and we don't have that. And what really changed my perspective and really changed my life and outlook about living here is, I can no longer see this area for what it doesn't have. But I have to see it as a blank slate to create. So that's, that's our hearts still living here. That's what my family wants to do. And building a legacy for our kids to grow up, is hoping that people would come here that have that same outlook, that we have every opportunity in the world to move to Appalachia, to West Virginia, and create whatever we want to create. And I think people are just waiting for permission to do so. So if anybody's listening, you have permission, just just go for it, and come to a place that's got wonderful Bob Ross trees that you can look at. But you can be free to be creative. And I think we're primed to do so we have the element of hard work, of a rich history. And now we're growing in creativity and being able to build.

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah, I think that's a really awesome assessment of where we are right now. We, you know, the thing about West Virginians, and and the Appalachian people in general is, we've taken a lot on the chin, but we always find a way to bounce back. And we don't really have a glass jaw, we just find a way to bounce back. And so, yeah, I think this is prime opportunity, like you were saying. Come here and expand the economic horizon. And, you know, I'm from Wayne County originally. So, and yeah, I mean, if you listen to how I talk, it's pretty obvious where I'm from. It's not Martinsburg. It's not Hancock County. You know, it's it's southern West Virginia, it's right in the heart of Appalachia. And I do think now, there is more acceptance than ever before, for economic diversification. And that's not being anti anything that's just saying, hey, let's, let's put way more options on the table. Let's not be one dimensional, let's be multi dimensional.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Sure. Yeah. I mean, and I think if, if we handle that, right, we'll be really successful. Like, we can't just say, this is dead. Let's move on. Because you're saying to people that have rich history that a lot of people don't know about, you know, that are just desiring for their story to be told in such a way that's honored? Yeah, yes, we do need to adapt and change and have more diversity. But we don't need to do that at the expense of losing our history and losing our story. And I think we played that. I think that's why you've you've it's hard to have that conversation. Where if you bring up hey, we can move in this different industry? You have that resistance to where it's anti coal, and it's really not, you know, it's and because we've we've done it in a way of dishonouring history. People will take that conversation in a harsh way, a harsh way like that. So it's a good point. It's a good point that you brought up, I just, I would love to be able to steward that with honor. You can honor the history that you have and give people options to do what they want to do. Don't say okay, this is, this is going away, now you have to do this. Or now you have to work on computers, or now you have to...I think what's going to make West Virginia shine is just seeing the options. Yeah, everybody, everybody's used to saying no to everything that they that's programmed, what happens when you have something to say yes to? That you have options to work for or go forward or create or build? Yeah, that's a good point.

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah, you know, a rising tide lifts all ships. And I think you got to find that balance. And you don't want anything to sound punitive. You don't want to sound like you're, you know, agendas are getting in the way of economic progress. And we've seen that a lot we've seen you know, we've we've been in atmospheres where winners and losers are picked, not by our own doing, not by economic factors within a free market, we'll just say, and so you got to be real careful, because a lot of people are nervous, that they're, you know, there could be an atmosphere being set up, where winners and losers are picked. And like you said, traditions, history is ignored. And in many cases, current economic livelihood, because even when industries are in decline, that doesn't mean they're gone. That doesn't mean that people are not still making an honest living for their families. So, you know, you just have to be careful with that. And you and it's, it's got, you know, you got to reinforce that this is positive growth. You know, what we're doing? What our friends are doing, is we are wanting to be that rising tide to lift everyone and it's not selective.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

It's encouraging. It's encouraging to others that can go for it. You know, you see a wave coming. I know when I'm at the beach, I'm not a surfer. Like, you know, I could one day do that, right one day, go for it and try. I've always wanted to be a surfer. I don't know why...

Ashley Stinnett:

I'm a big dreamer man. I'm one of these guys where I'm like, go big or go home. Go big or go home.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

And there was this classic movie Johnny tsunami. Have you ever watched it? Disney movie?

Ashley Stinnett:

Oh, I think I've heard of that. Now I have to watch it, dude.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Johnny Tsunami. He rode the waves man. He saw the waves and went after it. I didn't mean to interrupt you though.

Ashley Stinnett:

I thought I thought you're getting ready to drop some lines from Point Break. Like Johnny Utah, which is a classic movie. Keanu Reeves, Patrick Swayze. Talk about great hair. I don't talk about great hair and not have Patrick Swayze in that conversation somewhere.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

That's true. That's true. Are you are you having some problems with your hairstyle? This is the third hairstyle that you've mentioned.

Ashley Stinnett:

I'm in this weird transition where it's almost like this quasi televangelists look. Well, I'm and you know, no offense to the televangelists that might be listening to this... I don't know man, I've seen some amazing hair on some of these guys. You know, I like I like you know, I'm always trying to figure out different styles of hair. I'm trying to always change and I don't want to get into that. I don't want to end up turning into like, Oh Brother Where Art Thou where I have to have like Dapper Dan and not fop. But I'm always looking for new hair jellies to try

Kaleb Hanshaw:

You better do something because you look like any second now you're about to take up an offering.

Ashley Stinnett:

And that's, that's actually, that's coming from you a minister

Kaleb Hanshaw:

See, I'm allowed to say because that's my people.

Ashley Stinnett:

That's right. Yeah. Beard products. What do you use? Because I got buddies that have these, you know, these Devil Anse beards. Yeah. And I'm amazed at how refined and groomed and just - they look better than some hairstyles.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah, yeah. We need a calendar for West Virginia beards. Because we've got some good ones. I would, I would go for the month of September, just because there's a lot of songs that mentioned that month of September, but I think I would be a shoo in. But anyways, the routine for Appalachians is we wake up, we go outside and we rub our hands in dirt. You know, and then we spit on it. And then we just rub it in. We don't wash it off. And I have the pleasure of being on a farm. So I just go just let the pigs kind of fluff it up a little bit. And when they say it's good, it's good. And then I walk on and they I swear, I hear them say, there it goes, Mr. September. So just putting that in there. I know, I know, Ashley, you can pull some strings, and you can create things. So a beard calendar would go really well.

Ashley Stinnett:

I like the sound of that. I really do. I think a beard calendar would be great. And I think that would, I like that. I do like that a lot. We'll, we'll collaborate on that. And it's a great transition to farming, agriculture work. So how did you get into that? You know, you've come back here. So are you still in the ministry? At this point? I know, you said it was a few more years of that. Were you into farming at that point? Or is that something you've always kind of been in, and then it just took off or explain a little bit about how that got going.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

I never had a grid for agriculture at all. Just you know, living in the area that I grew up in, like people having tomatoes growing in their gardens and things like that. I never had a grid or interest. I remember it was kind of the highlight of my career and ministry. Being vulnerable, I just felt so bankrupt. I just felt like I was always on the go. I was putting in way too many hours, my family was paying the price for that of my absence. And man, I just felt this weird. And I don't know, what people believe in, I just felt this invitation from God to to pursue simplicity. And step number one in that journey for me was I had this weird interest to grow things like I wanted to have, like these pots on our deck. And I wanted to produce something that people could eat. And I remember the first time we had, and we continue to have people up our house and you know, have what you would call I guess a service. But I remember the first time growing the entire meal. It was a salad. But everything came out of that garden and I was hooked. I was hooked on the connection between community and the land, and what you could produce from it, the abundance you could get. So going through even that agricultural journey, it redefined ministry for me. Like it completely changed the entire game. So yeah, do we are we still in ministry? Like that phrase makes me want to puke in a way, but we just love people. You know, like, we get involved in whatever ounce of community that we're supposed to be in, and we just live life together and love our families. Well, I think that ministry kind of robbed my place as a dad and as a husband. So the thought of, of going back to a simpler time in the garden, with my family, it just brought us closer together, and I'm free, I can never get back.

Ashley Stinnett:

And that's that's, you know, that's really a neat story too. And probably, there are a lot of subtle components of ministry that you're still doing and maybe you don't even realize it. It's just in a very different unique way. Which is allowing for you to be closer to your family. And so I think there's and you know, it's funny to talk about, what is the old faith of the mustard seed there and growing like you're being, you're being inspired to want to grow things. And which I mean, that's pretty much faith. Constant yearning to grow.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah. Yeah, in the, the original desire I had even as a kid to see people become whole, not just good enough until you come back next week, but really flourishing in their life that spilled over into landscape, that spilled over into how can I regenerate this piece of land? So it started in agriculture, then it moved into regenerative agriculture. How can I steward the land that God has given me? And those desires really married each other very, very quickly. And you can do them simultaneously. You can really love people well, and see them become whole, while single and become whole. So yeah, I completely drank the Kool Aid in regenerative agriculture. And it's something I want to do for the rest of my life.

Ashley Stinnett:

So how did the Highwall like, how did that journey begin?

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Well, I was starting to step out into entrepreneurial stuff, and we were wanting to open up a coffee shop in Williamson. We want to do a no waste, market style comedy club, just something for people to experience. And we wanted to do that. What was it? 2020 That was the time we wanted to open.

Ashley Stinnett:

Oh, yeah.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Oh, nailed that one. That's cool. Yeah. So like, we're, we're blasting, media blasting. I had, you know, a couple Facebook Lives with the community, like, we're ready to go, I had a contract with a comedy club. All this stuff we had, you know, a studio coming in to make that their home base to record music. And then 2020 happens, which is so weird. I don't know if you remember. But these masks start coming from everywhere, and people start coughing and and then people don't want to go anywhere. You know what I mean? It was so weird. That kind of bankrupted that idea. Which was it turned out to be, to be a good thing and Coalfield was going to be an investor in that plan. And getting some to meet Brandon and, you know, build a relationship through that, when everything kind of fell through, there was an opportunity for me to, to kind of help out with Coalfield's presence in Mingo County. Coalfield was already, you know, very well known in the Huntington area, and even in Mingo County, that they had some projects coming up and I got to go on the property that they own, which is Highwall. And it just became immediately present that this was a wonderful opportunity to create a model for strip mine land, and what you can do with it, and I guess the rest is history. We're here about two and a half years later. And the project is just gone above and beyond what I thought it could do this quickly.

Ashley Stinnett:

It is a really cool place in a cool area. I mean, I've been fortunate enough to be there several times and just the, I don't know, being up on that mountain is, there's something euphoric about it. I don't know. It's just something in the air and the land is just really cool to be around. And I know. So it started in like, baby steps. And you say it's crazy how it's grown in the two and a half years. For people that are listening to this and maybe have never been in they're like, Well, what, what the heck is a Highwall? Can you kind of do a verbal tour here, like the some kind of a tour here to like pique some interest because it really is a neat place?

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Sure. What I can do is kind of explain the history of that specific property. The mines that own that property would harvest the coal by removing the top of a mountain and it's a very, very skilled talent, the way that they did this, but the aftermath of that is they kind of flatten everything out. And when you come up to the property, you pretty much see like a rock wall, as tall as you can see. And where it used to be kind of roadways, different levels. I don't know if you've watched Legends of the Hidden Temple as a kid, but it kind of reminds you of this obstacle course. But it's, I'd say it's a very very tall, flat piece of property that's you know, a lot of exposed rock, fill dirt and a lot of invasive species when left to begin to heal itself. So this property was I think going between 15, maybe 15 years of, of no activity when it comes to mining. And when that ecosystem like that's been brought to an imbalance, a lot of room for invasive species happens. So if you walked up there, when we first started, you'd see a lot of weeds, you'd see a lot of autumn olive trees. And you're speaking to an audience that may not know a lot about, you know, the different species. It wasn't a habitat for life, it wasn't a place for animals to come and find what they need, for soil to be what it is to grow things for people or for animals. So that's kind of the history of the project. So the heart of what we do, is to not just fix the soil, not just fix the landscape, but to bring balance to the entire ecosystem. You know, growing up in ministry and my faith, I believe that the design of the Earth is magnificent, and the way things work, so we can help with that. I've learned that the Earth will heal itself if left alone. So all we want to do is really partner with what nature is doing, and accelerate it. So here we are, I guess two and a half years later from using some agricultural methods, we now. Going from one species of weed, now we have seven species of grass. From having zero birds. Now we have birds and frogs and grasshoppers and bees. And you're starting to see animals return to the property. And what that does, it's saying the ecosystem is starting to find balance again, when the ecosystem is balanced life can happen. So yeah, a lot of people think, you know, we're just trying to fix the soil to grow food, which we are, but the heart of the project is, how can we bring balance to an ecosystem that went through such a harsh imbalance. I'm not saying that in a bad way - it just, it kind of is what it is. How can we partner with what nature is already doing to create a system of life and abundance?

Ashley Stinnett:

Well and lots of folks down there really appreciate what you all are doing you and your team. It is a really remarkable location, big plans for it. Can you, can you talk a little bit about, you know, moving forward, like, what's the vision? You know, kind of looking ahead, maybe a year or a couple of years down the road? Like, what is high wall going to become? I'm sure the possibilities are - I don't want to say endless. But there's a lot of opportunities down there if you want to talk a little bit about that.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Sure. You know, I put in that we start training, like rodeo clowns up there. It got shut down super fast. So we quickly pivoted. But anyways...

Ashley Stinnett:

I wish I would have been in on that because I probably would have put in an application. A little side gig for me.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

No, there's a there's a really cool opportunity for us to be kind of a model. And not in a way where we want to say like, look, what we're doing. this is how you do it for every landscape because there's 1000s of acres of land in, in Mingo County alone, that could serve from this model of bringing back land from mine land. So we want to do it in a way like - look at us is one way to do it, because it's different with every place. But I think like we were talking earlier, we could be a way. And we could be just another pillar of what's already happening in Appalachia and bringing ecosystems to balance. But on a practical level, we have an opportunity to really start something of bringing people in that want to be a part of the story. And we're building cabins right now, you know, our biggest market is people that like to ride the trails, which is an amazing industry that we have. And everybody that comes falls in love with the property, falls in love with the place, falls in love with the people. So we want to continue to build upon that and be a resource for people that want to come learn or want to come be a part of our story or want to come be inspired. I think the whole heart of that particular property of Highwall is to find a place where people can find healing or find education as we continue the story of regeneration, if that's through, you know, a vacation destination, if that's through wellness, if that's through rehabilitation, or ecotourism, Highwall has many different options in front of it. And the beautiful part of this project is, is we can kind of take one step at a time, and see, see what we're given. So, I'd say in five years, we'll see a lot more community buy-in, a lot more events, pumpkin patches, farm-to-table dinners, just a lot of events that will draw community buy in where they can be a part and tell the story.

Ashley Stinnett:

And tourism is really big right now. And it's cool to see people wanting to come here, you know, in the heart of Appalachia and experience, because it is it's just more of a laid back, being outdoors atmosphere. I mean, people obviously are not coming here for a beach coastal experience. You know, they're coming here to be out in the woods on trails, fishing, and enjoying, you know, the experience of a cabin or even just a rural Airbnb. You know, those are coming online all the time. And so it's really awesome to see southern coalfields becoming, you know, like you said, these almost touristy hotspots, who would have ever thought that was going to happen, it just even you know, five to 10 years ago, so it's absolutely awesome to see that unfold. And places like Mingo, Mingo County, you know, Lincoln, Boone, Logan, McDowell, Wyoming, you know, these right in the heart of that Southern Appalachia coal country. It's just really neat to see that taking shape.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah, I would even say a couple of years ago, there wasn't any Airbnbs in our area. And just seeing the shift to that, like just people are tired of being busy. They come to a place where they can relax and breathe. And what's so special about our area is we're not trying to be like Gatlinburg, or we're not trying to be this big destination, what we have that people enjoy is almost free, a lot of (our activities) are completely free. So there's an opportunity just to really be be brave and who we are, be brave that this is what we have to offer. And it's beautiful. So we don't have to try to be somebody that we're not. And that's the such a cool opportunity for us, that people, you know, even being in ministry in Florida, I would bring people back, we would come on trips and come back and they would fall in love with it, they want to stay. So you have people that are coming in, through our tour tourism industry, that fall in love. So I think as someone that's lived here in this part of the community, we can be proud of that. And we can see that about our home, that it is desirable.

Ashley Stinnett:

Absolutely. And you all are doing awesome work down there. And, you know, like, like you said, there's a lot of natural healing in what's going on down there. Wanted to ask you, we always ask guests, you know, I know we've talked about some big changes, like then versus now. What about moving forward? What do you want part of West Virginia, the part of Appalachia that you are at now what what do you want it to look like? Like what's your, like what's going to bring a smile to your face? And just what what's going to make you experience that - "Oh my gosh, wow, you know, it's finally happened" - type of feeling. And you know, not trying to make this sound like some beauty pageant contestant. I know it's painting with a broad brush here. But you know, what's that? What's that moment for you? Like if you had to verbalize that? What does that what does that sound like?

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Dude, I need a frickin Chick fil A? That's what need.

Ashley Stinnett:

I live in the capital of suburbia, USA, suburbia, West Virginia known as Putnam County, Teays Valley. We don't even have a Chick fil A. I gotta go to the Huntington mall or I gotta go to Charleston for a Chick fil A.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

You know, I hate that you have to carry that

Ashley Stinnett:

We tell you some money. I went to burden. McDonald's. I'm just gonna tell you right now. I'm a big fan of McDonald's. I don't even know what my cholesterol numbers are and I don't want to know. But I'm a big fan. Probably lots of clogged arteries. But what made it all better? It was a very nostalgic moment for me is buying my three - I have three sons - I bought them all, I wanted to buy myself too, the Halloween buckets that they brought back from the 80s. And I love them. Kids love them. I'm like, man, this...I'm trying to explain to them...your old man used to get these, like your grandma and granddad used to get him for your old man when he was like your age. And that blows their mind.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Are they like, Well, how do you charge it? Where does it plugin?

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah, right. So many people don't even know what a rotary phone is. I mean, they don't know what a pager is. I know that's a whole other discussion. But that blew my mind. It really absolutely blows my mind. I mean, we see them in movies from the 80s and 90s. And it's just such an alien concept.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

You know, no, people will know the magic of hearing a dial up sound when you're connecting to the internet.

Ashley Stinnett:

And then someone picks the phone up in your house, which interrupts you try to get on the internet. I love it. Yeah.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Or your mother's screaming at you to get off the internet because she has to make a phone call.

Ashley Stinnett:

No one will ever know the feeling of holding up this little black box and it has a number and it says 911 after it. You're like, Oh my God, and then you make a phone call. And it's like, Hey, man, you want to come over tonight? Hey, man, what are you doing Friday? It's like did you 911 me for that? Yeah, it's every single time

Kaleb Hanshaw:

He's probably one of them fools that never answered their pages.

Ashley Stinnett:

I was sneaking them at school. Which now I'm showing my age here. But like now I was the guy trying to sneak them in and not be stereotyped.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

You were Zack Morris?

Ashley Stinnett:

I was the Zack Morris of Wayne.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Well, let's get serious actually get serious.

Ashley Stinnett:

Let's get but we got a few minutes. Let's get serious here. Tell me your tell me your moment.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Here, I'm a dreamer. So this is an easy one to answer. You know, you can go practical with this answer and seeing all these, you know, businesses and communities and agrarian-like atmospheres, I can simplify it to I want to build something that can continually be built for generations, like whatever we do has legacy in mind. So in five to 10 years, and I love the model that Chip and Joanna Gaines have, like I'm a huge Chip and Joanna Gaines fan, for them to take an area that was top five worst places to ever be. To top five best places to visit for vacation is nothing short of a miracle to me. But everything that they're building, they have their kids in mind, you know, creating a place for them to grow up, creating a place for them to be creative. I would love to see this place where I'm from Mingo. County, for people to dream and have permission to build things that would create kind of a pregnant, to get people pregnant with that same vision that they can come here and dream and build. I think this is going to be a hub for entrepreneurs, I think this is going to be a hub for the mom and pop places that can start being creative with, you know, the online market and things like that. But I even see a place for artistanship and for really talented, skilled artisans and workers. It's their time to shine. And it really is any any fear that we had of well, this isn't going to work. We need to try. So in five years, if we've at least tried, I think I think we'll be successful.

Ashley Stinnett:

That's awesome, man. Well, I really appreciate all you're doing down there. And I know I'm not alone in saying that. And I really appreciate you coming on the podcast to share your story and your experiences. And man, just keep doing what you're doing. Always keep moving forward. And look, I'm a dreamer, too. I feel like without dreams, life gets really boring.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Yeah, it does. It's sad. It's when you lose your wonder, it's you lose your vision, you know, and you just, you're just existing and not living. So it's time to go in and go for it.

Ashley Stinnett:

That's right. We got to be more than just existing. I think that's, I think we absolutely have to be more than just that. Kaleb, thank you so much, my friend, for coming on.

Kaleb Hanshaw:

Hey, Ashley, it was a pleasure. Thank you for asking me.

Ashley Stinnett:

Yeah, man. Let's do it again soon.

Brandon Dennison:

Change in the Coalfields is a podcast created by Coalfield Development in the hills and hollers of West Virginia, become a part of our mission to rebuild the Appalachian economy by going through our website Coalfield-Development.org. To make a donation, you can email us anytime at info@ Coalfield-Development.org and subscribe to our newsletter for more information on the podcast. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn by searching Coalfield Development. Check back soon for more episodes.